tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post5005080153930275517..comments2023-09-06T05:48:05.398-06:00Comments on Terry's Place: Hiccups, Speed Bumps, Detours, and Roadblocks.Terry Odellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-78421289078672699842010-10-12T01:11:01.845-06:002010-10-12T01:11:01.845-06:00Excellent note on how Authors do not make good pro...Excellent note on how Authors do not make good proofreaders. I also believe friends and families do not as well. <br />Objective feedback is, perhaps, the most important gift to a writer. Loyalty, however, an attribute that you would value in a bridesmaid, wife, father or rugby teammate does not align with those of an objective responder/proof-reader. The tie monologue from AMC’s Rubicon illustrates why trusting loved ones to provide objective feedback is problematic.<br /><br />When you left the house this morning wearing that tie, perhaps your wife stopped you in the doorway, perhaps she told you how good you look in that tie, how handsome it was. Now, while I’m sure you love your wife, might I suggest, you have many reasons to distrust her judgment about that tie. Maybe she has a fond memory of another time you wore it, a sentimental attachment. Or perhaps she knows your tie collection and she’s simply glad you didn’t choose one of the ties she dislikes. Perhaps she just sensed you were feeling a little fragile. She felt like bucking you up a bit.Amyhttp://bluepits.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-66068918900358332152009-07-21T18:52:29.553-06:002009-07-21T18:52:29.553-06:00Sheila - I've always said I could spot a typo ...Sheila - I've always said I could spot a typo upside down on a page on a desk across the room, but I can't see them in my own writing.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-24411154665142152972009-07-21T18:34:06.037-06:002009-07-21T18:34:06.037-06:00I like to say I have an extra reason to be bad at ...I like to say I have an extra reason to be bad at editing my own work, in that I rarely notice mistakes in what I'm reading, and when I do, I rarely take note. I'm a pretty heavy sleeper, so maybe I'm a heavy daydreamer too, and I daydream in books.Sheila Deethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13465615546936319164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-74451939876782878142009-07-21T14:34:49.724-06:002009-07-21T14:34:49.724-06:00Joanna - Yes, I think we're all more sensitive...Joanna - Yes, I think we're all more sensitive to fields we're familiar with, or things we've experienced. For example, I was reading a book where the character counted out fifteen almonds for his afternoon snack, because he was on the South Beach diet. The reader familiar with that goes, "Right!" But if the author had said, a handful of almonds, or ten, or seventeen, that same reader would wonder why the author mentioned a specific diet if he wasn't going to do his homework.<br /><br />Those knowing nothing of the 'rules' of that diet would probably gloss right over it.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-38699577383114965432009-07-21T14:11:15.183-06:002009-07-21T14:11:15.183-06:00Hi, Terry,
I like medically related details to be ...Hi, Terry,<br />I like medically related details to be accurate. Most doctors do not take the hero's significant other to dinner to discuss his case, nor do speech or occupational therapist's show up to a head trauma patient's room with a preschooler shape puzzle (from a movie, a long time ago). <br /><br />I've grown more tolerant of typos b/c I, too, better understand how they can slip by. What makes me most crazy is books that aren't well-written or ridiculously slow-paced making the NYT best-seller list.<br /><br />As tedious as it is, an author needs to research whatever topic, line of work, etc, s/he plans to include in her/his work. In today's internet-driven world, there is no excuse for not being able to verify what one writes. Case in point: I wrote an officer-in-training who did his fieldwork during his academy run (not the norm). I did, however, find at least one place in the US that combines the two, so I can justify having written my story the way I did. That's just me and this is simply MHO.<br /><br />Thanks for posting and for reading!<br />Joanna Aislinn<br />NO MATTER WHY<br />The Wild Rose Press; Jan 15, 2010<br />www.joannaaislinn.com<br />www.joannaaislinn.wordpress.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-6656961461816107522009-07-21T14:11:01.775-06:002009-07-21T14:11:01.775-06:00Ray, someday I'll tell the story of why I turn...Ray, someday I'll tell the story of why I turned off grammar check.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-26792706191335991452009-07-21T14:06:03.764-06:002009-07-21T14:06:03.764-06:00I think one of the biggest culprits is spell check...I think one of the biggest culprits is spell check. It can lead to serious usage errors. It won't weed out correctly spelled wrongly used words. grammar check isn't perfect either. It counts vernacular dialog and idiomatic expressions as errors. When I use grammar check I use suggestions with great caution.<br /><br />RayRayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01308737766288257680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-34330689553363532882009-07-21T12:31:33.001-06:002009-07-21T12:31:33.001-06:00Excellent post. I wince when I find a spelling err...Excellent post. I wince when I find a spelling error in book or newspaper. I swear a lot of young editors never had a grammar or spelling lesson at school or college. Nor did they learn how to write a coherent sentence. Ah well, I am an old dame who was drilled and drilled on grammar and spelling. <br /><br />I'm not above making errors though! I ain't perfect.Anita Birthttp://www.anitabirt.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-31308601603593634402009-07-21T12:28:38.659-06:002009-07-21T12:28:38.659-06:00Ray, one thing I love about Michael Connelly and R...Ray, one thing I love about Michael Connelly and Robert Crais is their realistic portrayal of Los Angeles, where I grew up. But if you're going to murder a character, it's probably better not to have it happen at a well-known, real establishment.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-50903912650502745742009-07-21T11:50:45.705-06:002009-07-21T11:50:45.705-06:00Pat, yes, a definite disclaimer from the get-go gi...Pat, yes, a definite disclaimer from the get-go gives the reader the choice to accept the terms of the book. If they're looking for a police procedural, they know to go elsewhere, or at least not to expect one in that particular book.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-47612985218068202112009-07-21T11:47:10.542-06:002009-07-21T11:47:10.542-06:00Hi Terry, As you know from your current read, I ha...Hi Terry, As you know from your current read, I have thrown facts out the window and written a tale for the sheer fun of it. I think the right thing to do in that case is admit it up front to the reader, hoping he will then relax and go with the story and characters. <br /><br />What bothers me is when a writer puts his tale before us as a serious police procedural, but doesn't do his homework.<br /><br />The editing issue is a whole different ballgame. The worst part is to read our novels dozens of times, and still find mistakes in the printed version, even after editors and copy editors have done their work. It's so frustrating, but it happens a lot.Patricia Stolteyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192369425956406122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-4068836156657186182009-07-21T10:49:45.717-06:002009-07-21T10:49:45.717-06:00I only mentioned my problem with real places becau...I only mentioned my problem with real places because I couldn't wrap my mind around the changes. The late Wendy Haley wrote books about Hampton Roads Virginia. She place one in a book store with a fictional name, but when going to a book signing for Suzanne Brockmann the indy book store was exactly like the one in the novel. She told about crime after dark on the Virginia Beach Ocean Front. That really happens. She told of arson in one of the shipyards in Portsmouth or South Norfolk. She wasn't specific, but there are quite a few. She used real street names if they were long enough not to exactly pinpoint a location. I loved that about her. She made me always want to go out and find the locations that brought her storys to life. <br /><br />In one story she even told of crime that began on leaving a local teen dance club. I felt I knew which one it was. <br /><br />The story the author wrote about the Outer Banks of North Carolina just confused me. I am sure that it was just a case of picking a real location in to small an area to render to fictionalizing it. <br /><br />RayRayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01308737766288257680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-65353761494814096302009-07-21T06:28:53.131-06:002009-07-21T06:28:53.131-06:00Ray -- a lot of times the publisher won't allo...Ray -- a lot of times the publisher won't allow "real" venues in their books for fear of litigation. I've set books in real places, but I've tended to create hotels, or invent restaurants, or be a little vague as to the precise location of a scene, especially if something bad's going to happen. <br /><br />It might not be the author's fault at all. Some publishers don't want you to have your character drink a Coke without written permission from the Coca Cola company.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-17773606976871717462009-07-20T20:58:31.144-06:002009-07-20T20:58:31.144-06:00I have a problem with an author using a real locat...I have a problem with an author using a real location and create a world that cannot possibly exist in the same quantum universe. A book I read in a location I have visited hundreds of times and where I vacationed last summer had a non existent casino and strip club, a non existent island off shore and hotels much larger than any in the area. <br /><br />I know this was fiction, but I would have liked the book better had the author used a fictional town. Places Like Chicago or LA can have fictitious locations, but it pushes the envelope to do so when the author admits in the novel that the town in question only has 3000 year round residents. <br /><br />For someone who doesn't live near the town in question there would not be a problem. For me it was.<br /><br />The characters were the only reason I finished the book. They were believable.<br /><br />Still I love the author's work and have read several of her books and will again as long as I am not too close to the location. <br /><br />RayRayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01308737766288257680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-48447164539573789602009-07-20T15:12:45.339-06:002009-07-20T15:12:45.339-06:00I already have his book and I love it. I would hig...I already have his book and I love it. I would highly recommend it to anyone who has police in their books.<br /><br />I also have a couple of Dr. Lyle's forensic books and a few police procedural texts used in Academy courses. I am nothing, if not thorough (or anal, some might say)Pat Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08824114343214016153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-24444098573369869112009-07-20T15:09:54.606-06:002009-07-20T15:09:54.606-06:00Right, PA -- and if you haven't entered the co...Right, PA -- and if you haven't entered the contest for Lee Lofland's book (or don't already have it), it's a great reference for getting cop stuff right.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-67419917373279230952009-07-20T15:04:47.440-06:002009-07-20T15:04:47.440-06:00I hate it when someone gets something wrong that i...I hate it when someone gets something wrong that is so easy to check out. I read a book once that was set at the Kentucky Derby. The writer had one of the horses as the 'perennial entry' that came back every year in hopes of winning. Hello, the Kentucky Derby is for 3 year old, and only 3 year olds. How hard would that have been to find out? Especially in this day and age of the Internet when facts and figures are there for anyone who has five seconds.<br /><br />I especially hate when the police procedure is wrong, maybe because I strive so hard to make mine right. Maybe that's also why I don't read cozies very much.<br /><br />But I like accuracy, and I want to read it. I'll let small goofs slide, especially the ones that are likely not the author's fault. But major ones will, at the very least, make me put that author on my 'don't bother with this one again' list.Pat Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08824114343214016153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-11969397538288958292009-07-20T14:58:59.183-06:002009-07-20T14:58:59.183-06:00Great points, all.
Nothing is perfect, and the er...Great points, all. <br />Nothing is perfect, and the errors that bother one reader won't bug another one at all. <br /><br />And, as someone who firmly believes that all sorts of gremlins snead into the manuscript every time you turn off the computer, the more eyes the better.<br />Hubby read the ARC for When Danger Calls. He's a scientist and used to checking for details.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-57925391698103432112009-07-20T14:52:15.726-06:002009-07-20T14:52:15.726-06:00One thing I've learned in publishing eight boo...One thing I've learned in publishing eight books since 2000 is that it's very very tough to get a perfect book. This is especially true for a small press where only one or at best two people read the copy. So having as many "eyes" pass over it at the final stage is great. It's not like a friend is an editor at this point...just there to catch bugs. And once the final final final copy arrives, read it as if for the first time. You can't assume the errors you flagged were fixed. That's the case where someone changed my Valium to velum. OOoooooops.<br />One thing that older (myself included) authors often do is give their characters references far older than they are. In the book I've been reading, a woman in her late thirties has strong recollections of the song "Two Little Girls in Blue." That's Civil War stuff. Maybe great granny sang it to her......Lou Allinhttp://www.louallin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-67927240886562457232009-07-20T14:41:48.702-06:002009-07-20T14:41:48.702-06:00For me as a reader, it depends on what the error i...For me as a reader, it depends on what the error is. Sometimes I'm more forgiving than I would be with a different book or a different author. Sometimes if the writer has done a good job with the motivation an error won't seem as bad. Typos and other editing errors do happen at times.<br /><br />As a writer I try to be accurate to the best of my ability, but I'm sure there are times when I don't get it right or a reader might think I've done something wrong when it's really not. I think a lot of readers (me included) look at things we see on TV and treat them as gospel when they're really just a producers way of adding excitement or making the plot work.Shelley Munrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03090469550227550713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-227172744545319492009-07-20T13:45:42.795-06:002009-07-20T13:45:42.795-06:00Not exactly my story to tell, but at LCC when it w...Not exactly my story to tell, but at LCC when it was in Albuquerque, I heard Tony Hillerman tell about a copy editor who changed "an adobe" meaning an adobe building, to "an abode". Mr Hillerman had a little trouble getting it to be left as he wrote it. Naturally the southwestern audience got a good laugh from the story.mbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04023290571238191194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-58348072373997806452009-07-20T11:37:12.408-06:002009-07-20T11:37:12.408-06:00I think the more authentic you are the better the ...I think the more authentic you are the better the story, both for reading ease and quality of the read.<br />I am surprised at how many errors get through even with the big guys.Mary Ricksenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12676306822821614446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-21696126018636264772009-07-20T11:23:40.739-06:002009-07-20T11:23:40.739-06:00Great post. I think things like typos and formatti...Great post. I think things like typos and formatting errors shouldn't be blamed on the author, but things like what you talked about like safety switches on a particular gun should be the author's responsibility. I read and write historical books so something like 'she pulled the zipper on her dress' would cause me to stop reading. <br /><br /><a href="http://kelleyheckart.com" rel="nofollow">kelleyheckart.com</a>Kelley Heckarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05673342477988998070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-52209910600489751172009-07-20T10:41:33.063-06:002009-07-20T10:41:33.063-06:00Errors throw me out of a book, particularly histor...Errors throw me out of a book, particularly historical errors, but then I have a short attentions span!Nightingalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08557206288038501578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-23920396256989979962009-07-20T09:26:41.790-06:002009-07-20T09:26:41.790-06:00Susan - I agree there are two categories of errors...Susan - I agree there are two categories of errors -- the typo type, and the wrong fact type. However, both can pull the reader out of the story, and although authors understand they don't have the last say about what appears on the page, readers might not.<br /><br />And the reader rarely thinks to blame the editorial process. Our names are on the cover, and we take the fall for everything.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.com