tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post4552972973458611725..comments2023-09-06T05:48:05.398-06:00Comments on Terry's Place: Writing In the MomentTerry Odellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-15985257771203067212010-01-08T09:28:57.297-07:002010-01-08T09:28:57.297-07:00Another person who tended to do it was VC Andrews....Another person who tended to do it was VC Andrews. She/he? You know, they never established if it was a man or woman writing those. Grinning... She would often have a third person book going and add in long portions of first person of letters and journals. I think that's where I picked up the knack of doing it.BrennaLyonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17399508130752035374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-19873723246002363752010-01-08T08:24:37.068-07:002010-01-08T08:24:37.068-07:00Diane, Brenna
Yes, it's done. Sue Grafton...Diane, Brenna <br /><br />Yes, it's done. Sue Grafton's newest ("U") does it, and Diana Gabaldon's done it since her first book. When someone asked how she came to write in 1st person, she said, "I wrote 'I' " But Kinsey and Claire are the only 1st person characters in those books. All other POV characters are in 3rd.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-63309511206089853572010-01-08T07:47:22.946-07:002010-01-08T07:47:22.946-07:00First and third CAN be done well, if there's a...First and third CAN be done well, if there's a reason for it. I've read (and written) stories where you have a first person journal or letter and the third person for the person/people reading it, showing what effect it has on the present. It can work, but it's not an easy sell.BrennaLyonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17399508130752035374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-8086102311278493212010-01-08T07:37:38.933-07:002010-01-08T07:37:38.933-07:00I like more than one point of view but sometimes I...I like more than one point of view but sometimes I enjoy reading first person. I've read some books where they mix first person and some chapters will be third person. I don't like that.Diane Craverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09543155150824715253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-43021509865245245622010-01-07T19:34:47.720-07:002010-01-07T19:34:47.720-07:00Sheila - but in suspense thrillers, it's suppo...Sheila - but in suspense thrillers, it's supposed to heighten the tension. It's personal preference, of course. I'd rather not know, although it's not a 'throw across the room' or a 'won't read this author again' complaint, just a 'gee, I wish they hadn't done that' kind of thing.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-14462737993587281922010-01-07T19:15:31.770-07:002010-01-07T19:15:31.770-07:00Flash forward always feels kind of tongue in cheek...Flash forward always feels kind of tongue in cheek - works in something like Hitchhiker's Guide, but not many books are like Hitchhiker's Guide.Sheila Deethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13465615546936319164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-32569019137142674422010-01-07T17:50:05.852-07:002010-01-07T17:50:05.852-07:00Jemi - I like the h/h pov format as well -- as lon...Jemi - I like the h/h pov format as well -- as long as they don't sneak in the omniscient 'giveaway' stuff.<br /><br />Linda - Thanks - POV was my 1st lesson as well. By making the bad guy's injuries less severe, I could keep him nearby (in the custody of another officer), while still having the cop concerned because he doesn't know for sure the guy doesn't have more severe injuries. At least I'm hoping the final draft will work.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-52639054039154392672010-01-07T17:34:50.352-07:002010-01-07T17:34:50.352-07:00Another great blog, Terry -- nothing drives me cra...Another great blog, Terry -- nothing drives me crazy faster than poorly handled POV. Perhaps I'm oversensitive to it because it was one of my own weak points when I began writing! :) About your Rose dilemma...could your hero not handcuff the bad guy and haul him along on the search for Rose? The county detective could go with them -- potential for conflict between cops here -- under duress in order to help keep track of the baddie...<br />Just a thought...good luck with it!<br />LindaLinda Poitevinhttp://www.lindapoitevin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-18134178604166013502010-01-07T17:08:31.719-07:002010-01-07T17:08:31.719-07:00I'm pretty flexible with pov when I'm read...I'm pretty flexible with pov when I'm reading, as long as the writing is good.<br /><br />I tend to write from 2 pov - male and female mcs. I like the alternating viewpoints. It's fun to watch them alternate through the story.Jemi Fraserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02214408467456320167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-18129611141894031532010-01-07T10:07:20.657-07:002010-01-07T10:07:20.657-07:00Brenna - thanks for sharing. Amazing, isn't it...Brenna - thanks for sharing. Amazing, isn't it. I hate "contrived for author convenience" <br /><br />Ray - thanks for stopping by, and Happy Birthday!<br /><br />Katie - it's not the number of characters, it's the way they're used. But it's really that omniscient intrusion that bugs me.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-46154971541560076162010-01-07T09:59:10.233-07:002010-01-07T09:59:10.233-07:00I don't read a lot of straight mystery but in ...I don't read a lot of straight mystery but in romantic suspense, I love a decent cast of POV characters. 5-7 is fine w/ me and all my favorite authors do it :)Katie Reushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18085461796363818906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-34019836218670268052010-01-07T09:12:06.267-07:002010-01-07T09:12:06.267-07:00I like only one or two POVs in a story unless new ...I like only one or two POVs in a story unless new characters for an upcoming book are given a significant role in the story. <br /><br />I would think you could have the hero say, "I wonder if I made the right decision." <br /><br />RayRayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01308737766288257680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-17176647268145161542010-01-07T08:17:52.437-07:002010-01-07T08:17:52.437-07:00Let me share a wall-banger with you. Once upon a t...Let me share a wall-banger with you. Once upon a time, I was an acquisitions reader for a publisher. They handed me a mystery set on the moon (futuristic). It was going SO well, until... <br /><br />The heroine, who has spent the entire book trying to track down the murderer, finds out who the bad guy is and that someone else has just captured him, while he was trying to sabotage her...while she was out on the lunar surface in a space suit and nowhere near the action. It was radioed to her along with a promise to get to her before she dies out there. I kid you not! Talk about serious anticlimactic response.<br /><br />What the heck was the author THINKING? Personally, I would have written in that she found out and stopped him, while he was trying to sabotage someone else he felt was getting too close to the answer. Doesn't that make more sense? Or am I just picky?<br /><br />BrennaBrennaLyonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17399508130752035374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-67168701474934879252010-01-07T08:01:47.454-07:002010-01-07T08:01:47.454-07:00I prefer reading and writing multiple viewpoint bo...I prefer reading and writing multiple viewpoint books. With deep point of view. And I agree with everything you've said here. The "had I but known" approach really kills it for me. And it's not a good thing to bring in a new POV character near the end.Carol Kilgorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15168273312704732896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-26014585594132817522010-01-07T07:17:02.938-07:002010-01-07T07:17:02.938-07:00Jenny - you've hit on the difference between m...Jenny - you've hit on the difference between mystery and suspense. In suspense, the reader knows more than the protagonist, and in mystery, they're a step behind. I prefer mystery, but there's no 'right' or 'wrong'. They're different sub-genres, and I think they get blended as well.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-26953052272939540852010-01-07T07:00:50.288-07:002010-01-07T07:00:50.288-07:00I think maybe the issues that's being talked a...I think maybe the issues that's being talked about comes down to convenience, that is, the author's convenience. If it's just easier to drop in a character to offer up some needed piece of information, that's going to come off as artificial and contrived to the reader. But if that character comes from some deep and organic place, either in the story or the author's mind (as is certainly true for SK), then it will feel valuable and smoothly done.<br /><br />In my novel that's on sub now the pov is first person. But the ms is salted throughout with third person vignettes, and these are in the pov of whichever character the protagonist is most affected by at that point in the story. You see a lot of these characters, but mostly from the protagonist's pov--so hopefully it's interesting to have the chance to be in their heads for a few pages.<br /><br />Incidentally, one of the editors who passed on my ms before I introduced these third person sections said the "reader should know more than [protagonist]." Another pass said we should stick to the protag's pov, which was great, and cut the completely unnecessary third person vignettes! So clearly, as with everything else in fiction, this is a matter of taste!<br /><br />But my feeling is that as long as the writer's not taking the easy way out, I am happy to go along for the first person or omniscient ride, whichever.jenny milchmanhttp://jennymilchman.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-55492399541272576132010-01-07T06:40:15.532-07:002010-01-07T06:40:15.532-07:00Elizabeth,
I don't think you're rambling....Elizabeth,<br /><br />I don't think you're rambling. You're making perfect sense and on topic. And I happen to agree with you. A page or two would be the chapter break for me, but not telling the reader what the clue is, over more than that? Bad form, IMO.<br /><br />BrennaBrennaLyonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17399508130752035374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-40427622670570755312010-01-07T06:35:52.038-07:002010-01-07T06:35:52.038-07:00Rambling (and I don't think you were) is perfe...Rambling (and I don't think you were) is perfectly acceptable here.<br /><br />My crit partner gloms onto anything that could possibly be withholding information. He was not happy when my character "went to the file cabinet and found what he needed."<br /><br />Sometimes characters know what they're looking for and aren't really "thinking" about it, but I did adjust the wording so he found the name and address he needed". And then I made sure I showed the reader what that was within the next page or so.<br /><br />In television, that's where they break for a commercial!Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-21080060200580862102010-01-07T06:30:50.441-07:002010-01-07T06:30:50.441-07:00With a mystery, I want to solve the case along wit...With a mystery, I want to solve the case along with the sleuth. If I've got info that *they* don't have, it irritates me. It also irritates me when the *sleuth* has information on something and doesn't share it with the reader ("Ellen looked inside the vase curiously. She saw something written on a piece of paper inside that made her raise her eyebrows. She stuffed it in her pocket. Now it was all clear to her.") Bleh.<br /><br />What's the fun in *that*? But then, I like solving cases.<br /><br />Am I rambling here? I think I'm getting off-topic with this comment...<br /><br />Elizabeth<br /><a href="http://mysterywritingismurder.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"> Mystery Writing is Murder</a> <br /><a href="http://www.mysteryloverskitchen.com/" rel="nofollow"> Mystery Lovers’ Kitchen</a>Elizabeth Spann Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15625595247828274405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-8430417160502015312010-01-07T06:05:20.738-07:002010-01-07T06:05:20.738-07:00There is a better way. She could have a moment, as...There is a better way. She could have a moment, as POV character, where she thinks she sees something, but not being a tracker doesn't really get a good look. Or she could think she saw something, but the rain or snow or sand could obscure it and wipe it away. Or...she could run into the villain or the villain's trap, and someone could comment that she isn't very observant, if she didn't see...<br /><br />I'm with you. I dislike those sorts of spoilers.<br /><br />BrennaBrennaLyonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17399508130752035374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-82349815722733571862010-01-07T06:00:38.289-07:002010-01-07T06:00:38.289-07:00Brenna - I agree that some stories require more th...Brenna - I agree that some stories require more than one, two, or six point of view characters, and as long as transitions are smooth, I don't mind. One of my recent reads had a generous handful. <br /><br />But the "she didn't notice the footprints leading to the barn" bugs me. Then again, I suppose it's the nature of the suspense format, but I wish there was another way to deal with it.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-30568305156419253042010-01-07T05:55:53.201-07:002010-01-07T05:55:53.201-07:00I like as many characters as it takes to do the jo...I like as many characters as it takes to do the job without watering down the story and losing the reader in the cast of characters. If I'm writing or reading anything longer than a short, I really enjoy having more than one or two POVs, but two is acceptable in a romance. Since I tend to write spec fic, large casts of characters are more acceptable.<br /><br />Now, Stephen King is a characterization genius. He can introduce a character for a scene or two, make you care about him/her, and kill the character off JUST for the emotional punch. A lot of authors can't do that skillfully. If you can do it skillfully, sure...give me a POV of someone who is there just to provoke an emotional response or show me something I wouldn't see otherwise. I don't find that a cheat, if it's done well. Sometimes the one person who is there to see something ramps up the tension very nicely.<br /><br />I love when authors show me a skewed scene. I love the unreliable narrator/POV. I love when I see through the villain's eyes, but since the villain is focused outward, the reader is not given clues to who the villain is. It's a fine wine for me to savor.<br /><br />The whole "if he'd known then" is a literary intrusion of omniscient narrator into the deep third. It can be exceedingly annoying. Have I done it? Yes...in my very first book, which means I get to claim it as a newbie error. Since the intrusion was minor and set the stage for the very next scene...something that character would not see anyway, I didn't feel badly about it overall. If she'd been present for that scene, I probably would have deleted it in edits.<br /><br />This is one of those fine line and eye of the beholder things, I think.<br /><br />BrennaBrennaLyonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17399508130752035374noreply@blogger.com