tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post299110098607769262..comments2023-09-06T05:48:05.398-06:00Comments on Terry's Place: There Are No RulesTerry Odellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-52470525294777576362010-08-16T12:30:23.570-06:002010-08-16T12:30:23.570-06:00Hi Terry,
I'm not traditionally published (yet...Hi Terry,<br />I'm not traditionally published (yet), probably because I don't follow any rules. However, I've had the good fortune to work with many writers in the past few years who are doing fairly well.<br /><br />What I'd toss in is that rules are not germane to the SFD (er... crappy first draft) or perhaps the 2nd, 3rd, and 10th, but injecting the "rules" bit-by-bit during the rewrite process does seem to increase the tension, expand the readers caring for the characters, and keep the pages turning well into the night.<br /><br />Ron HeimbecherRon at CMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075044892993504475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-30496164836955991182010-08-10T12:49:43.888-06:002010-08-10T12:49:43.888-06:00Patricia, thanks.Patricia, thanks.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-24643625225251583782010-08-10T11:52:30.134-06:002010-08-10T11:52:30.134-06:00I agree 100%. Good post.
PatriciaI agree 100%. Good post.<br /><br /><a href="http://patriciastoltey.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Patricia</a>Patricia Stolteyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192369425956406122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-8985526663809697142010-08-10T05:37:51.372-06:002010-08-10T05:37:51.372-06:00I think a couple of rules help new authors to head...I think a couple of rules help new authors to head in the right direction. Once you have the basics down you can start breaking them. All the best authors break lots of them.Wynterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13611293420659353094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-21123850423861323422010-08-09T17:10:33.569-06:002010-08-09T17:10:33.569-06:00Allsion - thanks SO much for stopping by. You know...Allsion - thanks SO much for stopping by. You know I've taken many of your workshops--wish I could have been at RWA this year. <br /><br />Try a nice stiff nightcap-might ward away the nightmares. I think I've seen that snowflake method. Eeep.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-2620100375506623542010-08-09T17:08:55.877-06:002010-08-09T17:08:55.877-06:00Mary - yes, they all seem to have their preference...Mary - yes, they all seem to have their preferences - they know what they're sellinlg.<br /><br />Maryann, I agree. Romance no longer equals short category, so there have to be other changes as well.<br /><br />Delphine - I also broke the rules when I wrote a sequel with the same hero and heroine (another reason I don't like epilogues!)Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-35683823257807887042010-08-09T16:52:57.395-06:002010-08-09T16:52:57.395-06:00Hi Terry! I loved your blog because, of course, ru...Hi Terry! I loved your blog because, of course, rule breaking is one of my favorite topics! I did a workshop at national on this with Bantam editor Shauna Summers and author JT Ellison. Shauna used examples from Mary Balogh and other authors about how they broke rules and why they worked, even though on the surface the ideas seemed too wild to work. <br /><br />That chart you posted! I'm going to have nightmares. (shiver.) I remember a workshop where someone handed out something called the snowflake method. It freaked me out. :/Allison Brennanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05598446973999304028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-39116425117436457492010-08-09T15:34:36.163-06:002010-08-09T15:34:36.163-06:00I so agree. I don't know what the rules were s...I so agree. I don't know what the rules were supposed to be; crazy me, I just went ahead and wrote a book (two, actually). Then I had to figure out what genre I'd written (erotic romance, woo-hoo!) so I'd know where to submit it. Three submission attempts later, I was published. <br /><br />Really, the only rule is to write the dang book.Delphine Drydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05404686237412306195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-88702698706758333362010-08-09T15:27:25.640-06:002010-08-09T15:27:25.640-06:00I think many of these rules, especially those asso...I think many of these rules, especially those associated with writing romance came about from some publishers of category romance that wanted specific things to happen at specific places in a story. Eager romance authors started sharing those tips as if they applied to all romances, which they don't. Not sure where the dead-body rule came from, but I ignore it when I'm writing and when I'm reading. Give me a good story and I don't care what rule you followed - or didn't follow - to write it.Maryannwriteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09479027709233807149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-55667006374180319132010-08-09T15:25:48.344-06:002010-08-09T15:25:48.344-06:00And the weird part is the rules are different for ...And the weird part is the rules are different for different publishers!Mary Ricksenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12676306822821614446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-16776812447698923322010-08-09T14:33:38.012-06:002010-08-09T14:33:38.012-06:00TerryS - I always wonder why you need a dead body ...TerryS - I always wonder why you need a dead body at all in a mystery. I mean, there are lots of crimes that aren't murders, right?Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-40527900631838326572010-08-09T14:29:07.333-06:002010-08-09T14:29:07.333-06:00Thank you for this! When I start reading too many ...Thank you for this! When I start reading too many rules, I get confused and my writing suffers for it. I like your idea better. <br /><br />I keep hearing this rule for mystery writers that you have to have a dead body in the first chapter. I don't, but I'm not going to worry about it. I've read many wonderful mysteries with no dead body in the first chapter.Terry Stonecrophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03726985400500572770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-10497152452011539652010-08-09T14:25:42.450-06:002010-08-09T14:25:42.450-06:00CC - I'm not fond of 'tacked on' epilo...CC - I'm not fond of 'tacked on' epilogues, although a reviewer dinged me for not having one, or it's equivalent in one of my books. Personally, I'd rather leave doors open for future books. Too many romance epilogues seem to exist solely to show the couple happily married with new babies. I'd rather that be left to my imagination; I don't need it spelled out.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-27996864554973528942010-08-09T14:21:58.552-06:002010-08-09T14:21:58.552-06:00Oh, right. That no prologue thing that began maki...Oh, right. That no prologue thing that began making the rounds a few years ago. Where did that come from? I LOVE prologues - to read them and to write them. Epilogues, too. I remember reading a Susan Elizabeth Phillips epilogue that brought me to tears.C.C. Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08612963295091839658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-42532915410651325792010-08-09T13:47:35.902-06:002010-08-09T13:47:35.902-06:00Katie - if a prologue is needed, it's needed. ...Katie - if a prologue is needed, it's needed. Same for epilogue. I don't care for epilogues (why not just have it be the last chapter--but that's just my take.) <br /><br />Jill - Yes, I know Allison and she's definitely got it all figured out. She also gives great workshops on not plotting. :-)Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-62988189163026536122010-08-09T11:27:40.577-06:002010-08-09T11:27:40.577-06:00Terry, great post. BTW, Allison breaks all the rul...Terry, great post. BTW, Allison breaks all the rules because she believes there are no rules either. Grammar and spelling of course, but your story is your story. For me, I hate the whole must meet as soon as possible, perferably in the first chapter, hell on the first page. Stupid rule!!Jill Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10754506629717417267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-75925803111249662172010-08-09T11:23:49.120-06:002010-08-09T11:23:49.120-06:00Linda, many authors use 3rd person omniscient, but...Linda, many authors use 3rd person omniscient, but the omniscient part is usually used sparingly--and it has to be clear that it's omniscient, not head-hopping. Nora Roberts uses it in her JD Robb series (and probably elsewhere, but I don't read that many of her straight romance books. JA Jance uses it in her Joanna Brady mystery series. I think, as with just about everything, it boils down to doing it well.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-17787745544283030842010-08-09T11:19:27.370-06:002010-08-09T11:19:27.370-06:00Rebecca - by all means, you have to fit the confin...Rebecca - by all means, you have to fit the confines of the genre--as long as they're not too confining. A romance has to have that HEA, but 'rules' about when and how characters meet, etc., is a bit much. My current WIP looks like it's going to have to start in the villain's POV. I can't see the story working any other way.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-77030648702250708342010-08-09T11:10:48.684-06:002010-08-09T11:10:48.684-06:00I'm still wrestling with the whole POV/head-ho...I'm still wrestling with the whole POV/head-hopping thing. I like third person omniscient. I like it as a reader and I like to use it when I write. But I keep reading that it's considered a no-no these days. Is this one of hose "rules" that can be broken?Linda Leszczukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15117080878321152684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-56686416575905290652010-08-09T10:50:57.747-06:002010-08-09T10:50:57.747-06:00I don't know if it's necessarily a 'ru...I don't know if it's necessarily a 'rule' but I get annoyed when I see some authors say NEVER to use a prologue. I read a lot of romantic suspense and all my favorite authors do it!Katie Reushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18085461796363818906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-86438696311142336272010-08-09T10:35:52.533-06:002010-08-09T10:35:52.533-06:00First, the idea of using post it notes and a story...First, the idea of using post it notes and a story board makes me start to shake. That's not me. Maybe it's an excuse for pretending you're writing?<br /><br />Second, I do think you have to keep your audience in mind. A reader who is reading a romance wants to read about the h/h's developing relationship. So getting them together as soon as possible makes sense. I think you've got more leway in romantic suspense, where you've got an external suspense plot going on, too. <br /><br />I might start a romantic suspenes from the villain's pov and not even get to either the hero or heroine until chapter two.<br /><br />I write the kinds of books I want to write, but I do keep my audience in mind.Rebecca Yorkhttp://rebeccayork.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-12432993274404882872010-08-09T10:27:30.650-06:002010-08-09T10:27:30.650-06:00Carol - without hope, there's nothing! Write o...Carol - without hope, there's nothing! Write on.<br /><br />AJ, thanks so much. If we're going to follow 'rules' I think they have to be internalized so they become organic. I'm much more likely to apply them in revisions.<br /><br />CC - I think contest judges often are too keyed in on those rules. Bad enough they have to use a score sheet and quantify the subjective.<br /><br />Jemi - welcome to the club!<br /><br />Annabel. Thanks. And an understanding editor is a godsend.Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-31350886000304942912010-08-09T10:21:17.924-06:002010-08-09T10:21:17.924-06:00What a great post! I've been thinking about th...What a great post! I've been thinking about this a lot as I progress in my writing career. My first few books -- before I knew the "rules" -- had a lot more heart and emotional depth to them. When I started writing to hit the marks that the romance genre puts out there, I found my writing became more and more...ugh...sanitized in a way. I mean, it's still good writing, but that little edge is missing. I think it's really unfortunate for readers. There's a reason romance writing is not very respected by larger reading audiences, and called "formulaic" etc. I think there is a growing group of readers that is looking for something new that breaks out of the mold and carries them away. My editor is actually very wonderful about encouraging me to push envelopes. I don't always get my way, but I know my writing is better when I'm not trying to toe the "rules" line.Annabel Josephhttp://annabeljoseph.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-45164869896859195362010-08-09T09:48:25.028-06:002010-08-09T09:48:25.028-06:00I didn't know anything about the rules when I ...I didn't know anything about the rules when I started writing more seriously either. I had SO much backstory in my first story I don't think the story started until about page 30. I'm so glad I found great resources and people online and I didn't try submitting that!Jemi Fraserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02214408467456320167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30931389.post-32907394400533695482010-08-09T08:31:50.656-06:002010-08-09T08:31:50.656-06:00Terry,
I am so with you on this!! Those dang rul...Terry,<br /><br />I am so with you on this!! Those dang rules hung me up for years when I started writing. My stories just never fit into those rules, and it wasn't until I broke those rules that I sold my first book.<br /><br />And some of the contest judge comments on my pre-publication submissions were hilarious! One judge told me to GET RID OF the guy in the first chapter because he didn't fit the story - but he was the bad guy! Of course I couldn't let the reader know that up front! <br /><br />Great post.C.C. Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08612963295091839658noreply@blogger.com